Friday, February 29, 2008

Hidden Credentials



What are the hidden credentials of your students?

I liked the Peter Smith quote (page 147): "Educators and employers tend to ignore the immense amount of learning that almost everyone does outside of school and college. This is often a personal tragedy, and it prevents our society from benefitting from the 'hidden credentials' which Americans could be contrinuting to business and social life. We are blighting lives and hobbling our progress by failing to find ways to discern, harness, and reward these 'hidden credentials.'"

Do you agree? And if so, what do we do about it?

Wednesday, February 27, 2008

Gary's Thoughts, part 2



Note: This is Part 2 of Gary's email to the Da Vinci group. Included were two set-design pictures, but i was unable to add them to the blog. If anyone would like to see these pictures, please let me know, and I will be glad to email them to you. -- Bret


***


Part 2—the Da Vinci Project—Gary Schattschneider
Three other ideas that Da Vinci put forth that interested me in connection with theatre design and teaching Fundamentals of Speech were, the " 5 W’s and an H," the "what if…." question to search for solutions to various problems and the practice of developing mental pictures during different parts of the day to hopefully lead you to solving whatever type of problem with which you are dealing. I think these ideas play an important role in everything from solving set design problems, coming up with interesting speech topic ideas and approaches and "visualizing" a successful outcome to the speech and design experience.

I was introduced to the "5 W’s and an H" in high school journalism—as the structure of a basic news story. The "who, what, where, when, why and how" were all to be included in the lead paragraph followed by the information in descending order of importance in paragraph form. There were a couple of reasons for doing this. One was if you didn’t catch the readers’ interest and/or attention to want to continue reading the entire story, at least he/she had the important facts and information re: the story. The reason for having the information in descending order of importance was that once the story in column form reaches the person that does the page layout he/she might want to include the story on a certain page and if it didn’t fit the layout person would start literally start cutting paragraphs from the bottom of the story. The newspaper business being what it is –a race against deadlines—the layout person would not have time to read the story as he/she was trying to fit the story on the page. In fact some news stories have ended up with just a headline (to get the readers interest) and a lead paragraph. But at least the 5’s and an H are in it so the reader got all of the pertinent information. I still compare this lead paragraph approach as very similar to, but not exactly the same as an introduction in a speech in public speaking. I’m assuming that Da Vinci didn’t necessarily have "newspapers" in mind when he came up with this approach, but rather when we are in search of answers to our "cosmic" questions, we make sure that we have all of the information/facts before we draw our conclusions???

* * *

The next area, the "what if…" I think is a really interesting and important area that can help "lift" a speech, a painting or a set design above the mundane, allow the work to soar and certainly lead to new ideas questions and adventures—(i.e. the creative vs. not so creative ideas ??? or concepts that make people sit up and take notice.) This "questioning" can be abstract or very practical in approaching set and costume designs, for instance.

In January, 1969 I was flying back to the University of Idaho where I was teaching at that time. I designed most of the costume for outer space creatures for an upcoming children’s production we were doing during that flight. I completed most of the designs in pencil while flying over the Rocky Mountains (talk about your "Rocky Mountain High")! I knew I wanted the creatures to wear half-masks but needed something beyond glitter that would catch the light and show up under black-light. The 60’s were a period in theatre there was a lot of experimentation with "new" materials both in scenery and in costuming. Designers were using a lot of Plexiglas, foam and various kinds of metals. And I was certainly on the lookout for anything we could afford and would work for the production. After a month in Minnesota and now back in my apartment in Idaho, I needed groceries. As I was shopping (there’s always a show design rattling around in my head—either consciously or sub-consciously) I went down the cleaning supply aisle and BAM !—there was my "what if…" copper colored Brillo scouring pads that were cheap, metallic, would reflect light and could be cut apart to make them larger and attached easily to the masks. I always advise my students—open your mind to new ideas, ask "what if….." and observe with a vengeance!

The next "what if…?" perhaps has a more tangible outcome and can serve to illustrate both the Da Vinci idea as well as the "Production Concept" example that seems to connect with my students and those that aren’t as familiar with working theatre ideas from a set designer and director’s point of view. Below is a set design for "Diary of Anne Frank" presented in the Hill Theatre at RCTC and directed by Ray Mikesh (former director of RCTC Theatre). This play is fairly well known; the pictures and the actual attic and rooms exist in The Netherlands as the "Anne Frank House" which is a museum/ tourist attraction. The set designs that are usually used are smaller than the average set to suggest the claustrophobia and cramped conditions that these people lived in while hiding from the Nazis. Ray had also visited the actual house the summer before we were scheduled to do the production.

When I was still in the "mental concept design" process of coming up with an idea for the set, I was taking a shower one morning and had an "A-HA-what if?" moment—and visualization and an idea for the production—that wasn’t the usual approach. (I do most of my mental visualization, creative problem solving in the shower!!!) In fact, that situation became a standing joke between Ray and myself. In fact I could, at any time expect him to come up to me and say (Schatts…..you need to go home and take a shower to solve this problem"…)

My "what if…" approach was this: I decided that it really wasn’t the attic or building that was "confining" the Frank family and their friends; rather it was the society of the time (the Nazis) that were in essence causing a physical and emotional confinement and the Nazis could at any moment "pull the rug out from under the Jews". So the stage set used the entire stage and then some. If you look closely at the design you will see that the floorboards on the attic run parallel with the rows of audience seats and as they move upstage they gradually change color and become red and supporting a large swastika on a white circular background. Those floorboards acted symbolically as "the rug" which could at any time be pulled upstage toppling anything that was set on top of them—people, furniture etc. The swastika was the ever present threat both above the stage and flags in the orchestra pit. This idea can also be referred to as the "production concept" or the framework against which all things on the stage, acting etc. could be measured. Now you might be asking yourself… would an audience member looking at this set be able to verbalize this? No, probably not—but I hope that once all the elements have played out and the story has been told that on a subconscious or maybe a gut reaction level it has caused a new way of looking at the play/story or perhaps given new insights into it.

[Picture missing -- Please email me if you would like me to email you the set-design pictures -- Bret]

The above set design for "The Tempest" at RCTC directed by Jerry Casper, was derived from a more visual discovery and approach. The scene is on an island where Prospero has been exiled and shipwrecked. My inspiration? I was looking for some other thinks at Hobby Lobby when I came across a decorative mirror (on clearance no less) that resembled a mariners compass. Another A-HA and what if ? moment!!! If you look at the platform design it resembles the mirror/mariner’s compass with three directional points. I added parts of the scavenged ship—a mast on the left, the ship’s ladder type stairs, some portions of a ripped sail etc. The platforms and levels also resembled the arrangement of the Globe theatre stage (inner below, inner above etc.), the theatre and physical stage for which Shakespeare wrote.

Friday, February 22, 2008

Learning Techniques: Before, During, and After

I liked chapter 6 quite a bit.

Gross discusses two pre-learning techniques: pro-active reading and the vee-heuristic technique.

1. Pro-active reading is probably taught in Reading and Critical Thinking Skills classes, but most of our students do not take such classes. Do we ever mention the idea of pro-active reading to the majority of our students?

The point of the technique is to encourage readers to be "active, self-directed, and creative." And the way to do that is to approach the book with a specific goal in mind.

I know I'm old fashioned. I like to read the entire book, but Gross's point about developing focus questions and then just reading the specific sections of the book that deal with those questions makes a lot of sense.

2. Vee-heuristic helps you focus on what you already know, and then helps you transfer than knowledge into what you're interested in learning: http://telematics.ex.ac.uk/cocoa_demo/content/tools/improved_vee_heuristic.htm

The objective of this technique is the same as above -- take the time to think about what you want to learn from your experiences, your research, your reading. In other words, develop a plan, a focus question, and some key specifics.

Tuesday, February 19, 2008

From the Mind of Gary


Gary Schattschneider had some thoughts to share about How to Think Like Leonardo da Vinci, and he said it would be okay for me to post them :) -- Bret
***

Comments, Musings and Observations on How to Think Like Leonardo da Vinci by someone who has been referred to as the phantom designer, not very social, that "old guy", a transformer, and compared to everything from a grizzly bear to a teddy bear —take your pick.

First of all, I am extremely grateful to persons in my past—mainly some of my college instructors as well as my design mentor. They have been responsible for introducing me to @85% of the things that are suggested and/or talked about in the book (except juggling and fitness!). Please don’t take my comments as boasting but I was totally blown away by the book when I realized it was a real justification of my beliefs, ideals, and creative goals I have been personally trying to achieve and well as pass them on to my students in ALL of my classes. I hope the following comments clarify some of these points.

Even before I went to college, IBM brought the da Vinci exhibit of models of his inventions, machines etc. to exhibit at the Rochester Art Center. (I’m assuming these are the same that are now housed in the da Vinci museum in Italy that are mentioned in the beginning of the book) I still remember visiting this exhibit a number of times being curious and fascinated by them at the same time.

ABOUT DRAWING
My first Beginning Drawing Text in college was "The Natural Way to Draw" by Kimon Nicolaides which sets out a one year drawing program in detail, day by day. I truly believe that drawing is a matter of observation and what comes out on paper is a result of that observation and brain process. In other words you are making decisions with the brain even before your hand/pencil or charcoal touches the paper. When I hear students say they "can’t even draw a straight line" or they are going to start "sketching" I kind of bristle and correct them immediately. First of all straight lines are boring and can be done easier with a ruler, computer, CAD or whatever. Second, "sketching" implies that you have not really studied and or observed what you are going to try to draw. In my college drawing class we always had to carry a "Sketch Book" (I know ….a bad choice of words) which, in essence, was our visual AND written journal of our life during the time we were in the class before and beyond. Unfortunately the Art Department had the prerogative of keeping any student work they wanted for the "permanent collection"—so I have an entire sketch book filled with drawings of chickens that I did one week-end at my college roommate’s farm somewhere at the St. Cloud State University Art Department. I also used those drawings as a basis for a very large painting of a group of chickens that ended up at my college roommate’s parent’s house. So, I do not know where it ended up either. (da Vinci studied animals and their movement in detail according to the book)

A couple of drawing/painting exercises that da Vinci and Nicolaides and I practice are: 1)Observing your work in a mirror which gives an entirely different perspective on the work. Another suggestion would be to turn the painting upside down or sideways and work on it that way for a couple of days. A number of years ago when the Guthrie Theatre was going to do "Dr. Faustus" the set designer brought in the set model --a very detailed linear outline of a Gothic-like structure that was to be made out of steel tubing. After a few minutes discussion, the director suggested they turn the model upside down. And so they did and so it was produced! ( adapting to change da Vinci?) Who knew????.

I also like to take works in progress and set them around my house. That allows as you go about your usual tasks to "suddenly" come upon the painting or drawing and allows yet another perspective. Certainly the taking time away from the work is a very healthy suggestion as well.
Another drawing exercise that I think backs up the theory that drawing and decisions take place in the brain is to set up a still life and use the opposite hand then you are used to using. Probably 85% of the time you will come up with a better drawing because you have had to observe more carefully what you are doing. (or in da Vinci’s terms ambidexterity?)

When the book talks about developing your tactile senses, some of this can also be achieved with 2 drawing exercises. 1) study what you are going to draw, the describe it with a single line---varying the widths of the line to describe the 3-dimisional quality of the object. One key here is to imagine you are touching the object itself to make the decisions about the quality of line you will use 2) place your pencil on the paper and draw the object or objects without lifting your pencil from the page or looking at your drawing, and again, closely observing the objects you are drawing.

I challenge my students with the statement that if they are willing to put forth the time and effort I can teach them to draw adequately in a 6 month period. Of course they are skeptical and no one has ever taken me up on the offer. One other thing with which I try to raise their curiosity is to ask them "Who was the better draughtsperson ….who could realistically draw a person or place—Pablo Picasso or Norman Rockwell (of course very few even know who Rockwell was) but after describing some of his work most agree that Rockwell was the more realistic artist—when in fact early Picasso drawings are realistically more descriptive and better executed—it’s just that he chose to explore different approaches with his ability---but in every Picasso work there is an underlying structure to all of his work. It’s similar to students saying they have no need to learn grammar when the poet e e cummings didn’t use it. Yet, as I’m sure you are aware, there is a reason the capitalization and punctuation is left out—again an underlying structure.

I consider myself a landscape painter (even at this point in my life it seems a little presumptuous of me to say that and even to put it in print is a little scary) I totally believe with da Vince that if you observe and study nature you will discover many many rewards in all kinds of media as well as in your own life. I think Van Gogh also followed this very closely. An inspiring book about the theory and practice and drawing is Van Gogh’s Letters to Theo which is a collection of letters Van Gogh wrote to his brother about the struggles of trying to capture nature in drawing and paint. In my opinion, it’s almost a drawing course in and of itself.

* * *

An interjection: I liked Sharon’s comment about da Vinci dying in France ("smart man")…..but this was also the country whose military used the model of his horse statute for target practice….???? Hm-m-m-m.

* * *

ABOUT MUSIC
Much to my surprise all of the classical periods of music and examples from them where familiar to me with the exception of the opera Aida. I’ve designed to set for La Boheme three different times and have worked on other productions of the same opera. I am probably most lacking in knowledge and exposure to Jazz, but have worked on theatre productions Cole (musical revue of Cole Porter songs) and Oh Coward! (musical revue of the songs of Noel Coward some of which are also included in his plays such as Private Lives and Hay Fever…..and yes I saw Elvis and The Beatles on Ed Sullivan (and delivered flowers to Ed Sullivan when he was hospitalized at St, Mary’s in 1963 and I was working at a local flower shop!)

I’m not sure I am able to discern the various changes in the various musical compositions that the book talks about but do enjoy listening to classical music. My concern is that I see fewer and fewer young people interested in and or playing classical music and fewer symphony orchestras in our culture…is this the demise of classical music as we know it? I do have a question that maybe one of the group can help me with. I think there is a strong correlation between understanding mathematics and the ability to play a musical instrument. I am very "math" challenged and tried to learn to play a musical instrument to no avail. But I have made up for lack of math skills in other ways. (You can’t design and build stage scenery for 40 years without a "system" of you own). Just last semester when, I was in a temporary office with math people all around me, I posed a question to one of them which was…."If I have a round piece of plywood that I want to put legs on to turn into a table for use on stage, and there is no center on the circle marked, how do I locate the 4 leg positions?" He was very gracious and showed me diagrams and formulas that included pi and figured it out within 1/132 of an inch. I certainly respect his ability even though it made very little sense to me. So I suggested tracing the tabletop on a piece of brown wrapping paper, cut it out and fold it in fourths lay it back down on the plywood and mark the position of the 4 legs. He agreed that was probably easier!!! I presented the same problem to my Stagecraft class and not one person came up with any correct answer. In a broader sense I think this is something we, as instructors, need to remember about different learning styles of out students (and I didn’t pick this up from an education class).

The book also suggests learning another language, and about other cultures. Again I throw this question to Sharon. Do you think it takes a special type of person with a "special" type of ear/hearing (I’m not exactly sure what I mean here) to learn another language, or can anyone do it? I had two years of German in high school with "Doc" Most and it was a real struggle for me; I really couldn’t survive it and finally gave up. I never did get through Emil und Das Detective or Die Weisse Rose. I have the utmost respect for "Doc" Most as a teacher and a person, and one of my nephews had him as an instructor and was really successful, so I’m not blaming the instructor!

End Part One






Monday, February 18, 2008

The Romance of Learning


Is learning "romantic"? That's a pretty novel idea.

How many students in college classes act as if learning is more like a marriage gone bad after 12 years?

Every class should be an opportunity to connect romance to the subject. It's sad to see students in classes with the sole desire to "pass," not learn.

And, perhaps the classroom isn't the ideal learning environment for all students. That's why we must seize upon ways to connect students to the material through alternative methods.

Saturday, February 16, 2008

Schools: "Stand Still, Laddie!"


Gross' program for lifelong learning is self-focused and self-directed. Of course, one of the reasons for Gross' approach lies in schools failing students. Fear, not paidia (play) informed paideia (education), is too often the outcome for so many students from a traditional schooling.
I am an alumnus of Northern Illinois University, where I did my MA and PhD work (most of it) in Political Science. I have been thinking quite a bit about what motivates students to walk into schools and begin shooting. There are no doubt a myriad of factors. But my mind turned to one factor that surely has an influence: the fear and anxiety that characterizes traditional methods of pedagogy, described by Gross. which so stimulates our fight-flight reptillian brain. Indeed, the fears that Gross lists may add up to, or confirm, another, more dangerous fear which ossifies into an entrenched belief: "I am a worthless person, both inside and outside the classroom."
Such an event as occured at NIU underscores to me the awesome responsibilities we have as educators. I am not suggesting that we, in our "role," might directly prevent such killing from taking place. We are educators, not therapists. What I am suggesting is that we consciously create a fear-free classroom. Students should feel comfortable walking into a classroom and being in the presence of a teacher. Respect does not stem from fear, but admiration. Perhaps the student is simply not interested in the course, yet needs it for credit. One tries, as an educator, to spark interest in the student, sometimes successfully, sometimes not. But, even if not, if the student observes a teacher who loves the material, tries in a variety of ways to relate and facilitate that love to the student, displays fairness and an appreciation for the varying abilities of different students, shows fairness and empathy, and attempts to reach out to the student (perhaps not even academically, just as another human being--asking how other classes are going, etc.), a student will most likely respect such a teacher and such a situation goes far towards freeing the traditional classroom of anxiety and fear for the individual student.
My heart goes out to those at NIU who have lost loved ones or who are recovering from injuries.

Friday, February 15, 2008

A Moment of Clarity

On page 52, Gross mentions the three zones of learning: The Groan Zone, The Drone Zone, and the Flow Zone. What a neat way to put it.

The idea, of course, is to avoid the Drone and Groan zones, and I think this section of the book does a pretty good job explaining how to do just that. And for faculty, I think this is a key section to keep in mind as we help our students.

The quote by Roger Von Oech stuck out to me, too: "The ancient Greeks knew that learning comes from playing. Their concept for education (paideia) is almost identical to their concept for play (paidia)."

Thursday, February 14, 2008

Peak-Learning=Professional Success?

“Thank God I never was sent to school/To be flogd into following the Style of a Fool”--Wm. Blake

I have just begun Gross's book and, as Bret points out, the six major fears of learning--stemming from various sources in different individuals--are compelling and necessary to consider as a teacher and fellow-learner. It is not even mid-semester and I have heard each of the six fears expressed by my students (fear of not knowing how to learn, learning is boring, difficult, passive, lonely, unrelated to one's real interest, and, in the current state of affairs, institutional learning is ungodly expensive--which intensifies student fear and anger greatly).

At some point in their experience, strong, negative, anxiety-provoking feelings have been associated with learning thus activating and processing memory and emotion in the "reptillian" (fight or flight) portion of the brain. The good news is that the brain is not as "hardwired" as once thought; that feelings, so important in learning (starting the process, continuing the process, and remembering and building upon the process), can be changed thoroughout one's life. As I listen to Pink Floyd's The Wall, I find this encouraging.

No doubt exorcising the "learning fears" bolsters one's confidence which can lead to success. And, in the best of cases, vocation combines with avocation in a kind of "flow" or "zone." Yet, one reservation I do have is with Gross' subtitle: How to Create Your Own Lifelong Education Program for Personal Enligtenment and Professional Success. I may do Gross disservice at this point, but I am leery of the notion of education as a "product" leading to professional or worldly success. Education ('paideia") and "enlightenment," especially of the highest Socratic sort (as Socrates' life attests), is not necessarily a fast-track up the corporate ladder. At this point, the notion of what it is education and what is an educated human being, or whether such a question is relevant, might be considered.

Clearly, Gross is right about this: we learn best that which is suited to us individually, suits our natural talents and their development, and sparks our passions ("eros"). We each travel our own unique journey, a journey that needs be self-directed. And the path and/or direction of that journey may change--very likely given the nature of our global economy.

But what of teachers? Socrates, in Plato's Theaetatus, likens his role as a teacher to that of a midwife. It is a pregnant metaphor (sorry). Students, self-directed, can certainly give birth to knowledge or truth without the midwifery of teachers; teachers often are superfluous. Moreover, teachers, but midwives, cannot impregnate students with knowledge. Many students, in fact, discover "admirable truths" within and bring them forth unaided. Other students will benefit from a midwife, yet do not realize it and as a result truth is aborted at birth or is birthed and brought up badly. Others, says Socrates, have minds that can never "conceive" though he can still find a place for them. Finally, there are those students whose "minds are in labor" and realize the comfort they may receive from the ministrations of someone like Socrates.

For Gross, teachers are a last resort: on tap, but never on top. After all, he says, "it's your learning, not theirs." (49) Fellow educators: what do you think?

Wednesday, February 13, 2008

(Un)Learning Fear



Gross hits this idea hard. You simply cannot learn until you remove fear.

Fears are feelings, and feelings are deeply ingrained. The author suggests that we might not even know why we have these feelings, but we must discover the underlying reasons of our fears, or else we'll never be able to learn.

How many of the following fears have you witnessed in your own students:

1. Fear of change

2. Fear of responsibility

3. Fear of forgetting

4. Fear of shame

5. Fear of being ineffective

6. Fear of having too much to learn

These fears are real. Often we hear students say, "I'll be happy just to pass this class." What causes them to "aim low"? One of our primary jobs as teachers, whether we like it or not, is to defuse the fear timebomb. Only then we'll we have what we really want: students ready and eager to learn.

Tuesday, February 12, 2008

The Emotional Brain

I'm sorry, but I really don't remember anyone ever teaching me this stuff when I was an undergraduate. For example, Gross says "our ability to remember information for future use may depend more on our feelings at the time than we had realized" (page 24). In other words, we tend to remember things better when we have an emtional attachment. That totally makes sense, and certainly explains why people remember where they were at 9-11, when the Challenger blew up, when Reagan was shot, etc.

How many times do we hear our students claim that something is "boring"? Maybe it's math, maybe it's English, or maybe it's education in general. The point is: the bored student cannot learn. Frankly, I know a lot of us have trouble understanding bored students. "How can they think this stuff is boring?" we wonder. And yet we know that they do.

This link might help:

http://www.virtualsalt.com/motivate.htm

The Mind is a Turkish Bazaar

I liked the image Gross uses of the mind as a Turkish bazaar (page 27). After all, our minds are always taking things in, and just because we are studying psychology, for example, that doesn't mean that we're not making a million other connections.

I'm afraid that we don't always encourage our students to do anything with those connections, though. Sometimes we probably fear that these connections take our students (or our classes) off topic; but if the topic itself is "learning," and if the brain is about making connections, is anything really "off topic"?

Brain Workouts

The brain is a muscle, but how do we teach our students that they need to do mental workouts? The classroom could be the brain's "gym," but how many of our students are encouraged to do mental workouts before class? And I'm not talking about homework and reading assignments. Students need to stretch their minds right before class. Do we encourage them to do that?

Any thoughts on how we can encourage students to do brain workouts before class?

Modern Learning Techniques: Are We Modern at RCTC?

Reviewing the chart on page 35, I wonder how well we're doing at following Modern Learning techniques. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to do Interdisciplinary learning? For some reason, "interdisciplinary" tends to be a taboo term at RCTC.

We do much better with "technology as an integral tool," but how are we doing with "community partnerships"?

Below is a thorough and lengthly link explaining how to develop interdisciplinary courses. It would be well-worth the time and trouble to read.

http://www.interdisciplinary.duke.edu/news/resources/Haynes_Handout.pdf

Friday, February 8, 2008

davinci day

i didn't pursue photography quite as vigorously as i might have had i not been concentrating on my perspective drawing so much - but here are a few!






Da Vinci lives through you


Hmmm... wonder what this is?? ;p

Who drew this?


Will the artist that sketched this please step forward and receive your award?

Is this the real reason people came?


Thanks to Bill, who really did live up to his "host with the most" label. He graciously broke out two bottles of Da Vinci from his secret supply. :)

The Whole Gang (minus the Gang Members who couldn't attend)



A little bit dark, but this is the only photographic evidence we have of all those that attended.

Missy and Hubby -- Sting Book Club Action Shot



I cannot emphasize enough how serious people are taking this drawering exercise. Exhibit #2 -- Missy's tongue.

Abby and Hubby -- Sting Book Club Action Shot


When the colored pencils come out, so do the tongues, eh Norm?

Carol -- Sting Book Club Action Shot


Look at Carol go. She's taking this activity pretty seriously, me thinks! :)

Art -- Sting Book Club Action Shot


This is Art. He likes art. :)

Tim -- Sting Book Club Action Shot


Here's Tim. He likes to do drawerings.

Wednesday, February 6, 2008

Sting Book Club

Hi all,

I thought I'd take our discussion off the Group Email and establish a blog for people to post.

Now, I've sent you all an email to give you permission to be co-authors of this blog; that way, you can actually make posts (and not just make comments on posts made by me).

If you have any difficulty figuring out how to blog, let me know. I'll be happy to help.

Bret